Problems dated January 2023.

Monday January 10th 2023,
 Martin had breakdown on his Dillon 650 reloading press.

Martin's Ring Indexers. no. 13677 broke.

Then the press will not work normally and Martin has to manually turn the shell plate by hand. Very awkward.
Also the tip on the primer pickup tubes is broken on the small tube. Problems again.

Ordered
Two small plastic tip.         For primers
13677 Ring Indexer            Broken se above
13790 Indexer Spring Pin  Bent and due to break
#1 Locator Pin(3) - #13930                .45ACP   lost
#3 Locator Pin(3) - #14060                9mm      need at least one
#2 Locator Pin(3) - #14062 .40S&W lost

 

  

 

Problems dated February 2020.

During February 2020, Martin made some 3000 .9mm rounds. No problem after a thourugh cleaning of the press. Then the problem started.

Total number of rounds:

5380

%

Sideways ones:

224

4,16 %

Upside down:

93

1,73 %

Towards the end, the problems almost disappeared. When clean, works, when dirty works. Any ideas why?

Problems dated July 2019.

Martin is using some new primers, Magtech. They seems to be bigger and harder than most. They will not fit in the primer pocket.
Martin has not had this problem with other primers. As a test, he used some small rifle primers. No problem. Martin suspect that the primers are the problem.

During July 2018, Martin made some 1000 .45ACP rounds. No problem. Why now?

Tuesday, July 23rd, Martin converted his press, a Dillon 650, from small to large primers. Big mistake.

At one stage, 9 of 10 primers came sideways. not good.
Martin used max force on the up-stroke, still protruding primers.

Another view of wrong primers.
Martin suspect the seater is too short or the press has been elongated during 27 yours of use.

Martin tried to press the shell plate futher down with a washer. No result.
Still protruding primers and sideways

and upside down primers.

 
Then the  shellplate got struck. Martin forced a primer and it exploded.

It happened again. The primers hit the corner and got crunched.
Not only didn't the press not work, Martin got his finger crunched. First time since his career as a reloader. He started in 1975, giving it 44 years of realoading.

In the process, Martin lost his  Index Ball Spring, Dillon item 13997 into the vacuum cleaner. The Index Ball was recoverd. Not the spring.

  
Tuesday, July 23rd, Martin lost his Index Ball Spring, Dillon item 13997 in the trash bin. Martin did some dumpster diving. Not nice with soiled nappies, one week old.

Then Martin had to do a second round of seating primers due to malfunction of Martin's reloading press. Enjoying a fire and some beers.
Martin enjoying a sunny afternoon reseating primers in 9mm round. He didn't have a Lee tool for .45 ACP.

Wednesday, July 24th, another shooting morning with 9mm Vektor SP1 and 1911 ACP in .45ACP. Here is Martin's bus stop.

Martin tried 60 .45ACP rounds with protruding primers. They all went bang, due to the ingenious design of the 1911s. The firing really gives a good punch. See the video.
Martin gives all he has, and still they are not seated properly.

Here is a close-up.
Only with Magtech primers.

Fireing these in a 9mm Government 1911 is not a problem. The firing pin hits hard enough. The problem arises with guns like Vektor Sp1 with a weaker hit and spring operated firing pins in guns like the Glock. Then they don't fire.

Problems dated June 2019.

The problems were based on non-alignment with the primer seating die. Using the alignment tool correctly solved the problem in 2018, but came back with a vengeance in June 2019.

 

I have identified the problem. The indexing plate does not rotate enough. Due to worn indexing pawls? I have two. But after some 100 manually moving the plate, it started working all of a sudden.

 
Here you have the turned primers. Really annoying.

Here is a close up.
Could it be a problem with the Primer Station Locator Bar.

Here is a close-up.

Problems dated February - March 2018.

The problems were based on non-alignment with the primer seating die. Using the alignment tool correctly solved the problem.

The biggest initial problem was crunching of shells in the powder measure.

View of crunched shells.

These were all 9mm shells.
And it is not a pretty sight.

Particularly the one in the front is really well crunched.
The result of 400 .40S&W shells 13 where crunched.

Here is the alignment tool in action. What was the problem? The alignment was right.
This is the priming station. As can be seen here, the case is not properly into the shell holder.

This resulted in crunched primes, either sideways or upside down. Crunching the shells happened at the powder station and the reason was the same. Not properly inserted into the shell holder on the priming station. When a manually made sure it was, the crunching stopped. Interesting.

It can be due to the incorrect form of the Primer Station Locator Tab. It was bent. When this was fixed, the crunching stopped.

Another problem was the Punch Support Bracket. It was worn and replaced, but still it didn't seat the primers deep enough so a nail was used to lift the primer punch up.

The Missing Bellcrank Screw resulted in no powder which was quickly discover due to the fact that all shells are visually inspected before bullet head is inserted.
Loose Bellcrank Screw.

Another weird problem was that the primer bottom was removed, not the whole primer, which made it impossible to seat a new primer. Then the decapping pin broke and was replaced by a Dillon original decapping pin and the problem vanished.
Here are a few of missing primer bottoms.

This happened only once. I was loading 9mm and somehow, the powder measure managed to overdo the belling. What caused a lot of problems was a .40S&W shell among the 9mm. It really took time to fix it.
Indexing ring is very worn.

I thought his could be the cause of the crunched shells, but was not.
Missing Bellcrank Screw resulted in no powder.  

Problems dated June - August 2018.

Broken / worn / missing parts as of August 2018:

  1. Primer Cam                       13670
  2. Cam Insert  Slide             97082
  3. Cam Screw                       14037
  4. Early Warning Buzzer      20302 
  5. Punch Support Bracket    13488
  6. Indexing return spring    13791

Main problem not solved. The indexing doesn't work when the primer system is operational. It needs more work.

Crunching problem was solved by locking the Primer Station Location tab in place so it was tight towards the shellplate. Then the case was properly introduced to the powder measure die,

 

Some statistics from Aug 9th, 2018.
I reloaded 372 9mm rounds that were pre-primed. I did this in 55 minutes including manual case feeding. It worked very well.

This is Martin's reloading table in the living room with the results.

  

In this process, I had

bullet

11 toppled cases.

bullet

 1  crunched case

Only 12 mishaps of 372 total rounds. Acceptable. But no priming acrion
Toppled case.

In front of cam insert slide, I had to put a washer. This to get the case into the shell holder plate. I tried to adjust the camming pin, but to no avail.
Some of the toppled cases were this one. It wouldn't go down the Station 1 Locator.

Another example of toppled case.
Of 35 cases, 20 were crunched.

Here are the 15 that made it through the press without being crunched.
The powder measure really crunch the cases.

Here are some details. Note the case to the left. It is shaved in the indexing tool. And it was already pre-sized. Why does this happen?

Over the last few years, I have collected a liter of crunched cases. They have a live primer so I have to keep them separate. Cannot sell them as scrap.

I tried to get primer system to work and had to get the Primer Cam to index the enough, I had to add a washer.


Just before I changed from small to large primers, I found 252 primed .45ACP, Berdan cases. I disengaged the priming system and all the 252 cases went through without a single indexing problem. The problem arises when the priming system is operational. Any ideas?
 

The selection of Case Inset Slide and Cam. Most worn out.
The seater assembler for the small primes seems OK.

The one of the case inserter is broken. The other one has a protruding spring. The cam screw is missing.
The primer insert is not indexed correctly.

The alignment tool seems OK:
The indexer ring doesn't not return to starting position.

Spring is protruding from the slide inserter.
Alignment tool. I is impossible to move the platform when the screws are in.

Small primer punch. The one to the right is unused and inserted into the platform.
Brass Tip SetScreew is impossible to reach when the platform top is on.

Worn slide insert.
Old an new primer cups. The new one looks bigger and has replaced the old one.

The opening for the spent primers seems OK.
Primer Early Warning System need replacement since half of it broke off.

I managed to get the press working OK with large primers. But it doesn't index fully as seen here. I was fiddling with the shell feeder assembly and then it worked correctly for a few minutes.
Indexing problems are caused by the primers. The video shows that indexing works as long as there are no primers in the system. How is that explained?  
Double up. Instead for rotating clockwise, the disk rotates anti-clockwise resulting in this pile up. Of the two shells, the foremost one is already de-capped. Very strange behavior.

After a closer look, when the shell plate is indexing, the shell moves back onto the Station 1 Locator instead of following the the indexing plate.

  

 

Mike said:
Please remove that bolt that you have put under the punch support arm immediately and put the other support bolt back into the bracket and secure them both firmly.  Once you have done that, then push the handle to the rear of the machine until it stops, hold it there and take a photo of the primer punch as shown in the attached photo and send it to us for evaluation.

This is the primer punch as said.
Mike said:
Next, please check the crank (where the handle attaches), to see if there are any cracks in it.  Typically, if there is a crack(s), they won’t show unless pressure is put on the handle. So when you check the crank, make sure you check it both when pushing forward on the handle (like seating a primer) and when you push the handle all the way down.

This is the crank in the upward position.
 

Here is another one, no sign of cracks. This unit was replaced some 10 years ago.

Here the crank is in the downward position. No sign of cracks either.

 

  This is what it should look like. like. Dillion official picture.

 

Primer not seated deep enough:
(Click for bigger pictueres.)

I did as suggested. The support bracet is secured by the two original screws.

The primer punch doesn't reach up far enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The resulting priming can be seen on the 45ACP "primed" case.

 

       

Primer not seated deep enough:
(Click for bigger pictures.)

I suspected it was the Seater Assembly that wasn't seated deep enough. I made sure when converting from small to large primers. Not correct. Still not seated deep enough.

Then I looked at the Punch Support Bracket. It was worn down. I fixed it with a screw, but are not convinced this was the real problem.

Any suggestion?

Problems dated August 2017.

         Primer not seated deep enough:
(Click for bigger pictures.)

I replaced the the one arm on the press since it was worn by the locking pin of the arm. The Main shaft Pivot Pin.

Seen here are some rounds that didn't work in the Glock. In a 9mm Government model, the seating is not any problem. All fired.
      Here I sit on my veranda, doing seating with my Lyman hand primer tool, a tool I used extensively in South Africa on my Berdan .45ACP brass.

And some beers from Poland. Cheap :-)

A nice fire to boot.

 

The problems of July sorted itself out after I tightened the platform assembly properly. I did not use the indexing tool I got, yet.
Suddenly, the press starting working like clockwork, and I made some 800 rounds

     Primer not seated deep enough:
(Click for bigger pictures.)

I think this has do do with the Punch Support Bracket no. 13488. It is worn out. I put screw in it, and it worked.

What to do with my 800 9mm rounds? Use my pre-Dillon Lyman hand primer tool. It takes some time, but it will then work in the Glock. In a 9mm Government model, the seating is not any problem
    But then the indexing problem
started again after I inserted the screw seen above. The Index Pawl No. 13667 is badly worn. I have 2 of them, and both looks the same.

Can this cause the indexing problem?

And why does a small screw affect this?

Same shit with primer upside down and sideways.
Some of my empty shells does not get decapped. It seems that the decapping pin penetrates the primer and then pulls it back in?

Or is the decapping pin to far out?
The Case Inserter and Feeder, No. 97082 doesn't feed without me helping it with the plate shown to the left.

Why do I have to do this?

 

Problems dated July 2017.

Crunched cases by powder measure: (Click for bigger pictueres.)

After a complete disassembly, cleaning and reassembly, this problem occurred.

Out of 100 cases, 32 were crunched by the powder measure. This is not acceptable and I started fault finding.
I got suspicion to my handle shaft that didn't not go home.
Here you clearly see that the case is not put home. I manually have to do it.
This is the handle shaft. I had to make a notch in my table for it to go home. No it does not. Why?
The shell plate bolt is tightening up while using it. I have following suspecion:
  1. Item  13667 - The index pawl is worn.
  2. Item 13923 - The brass tip set screw is not working. I have it, but has problems tightening it.
  3. Item 13488 - Punch Support Bracket is squashed and I have to use a screw to get the primer seated

Mike, could you give me some ideas? And send me the 3 small items mentioned?

But I cannot figure out why the handle shaft goes home. Can you?

 

 

Problems dated July 2015.

Hi Mike

 I have a weird problem. Every 3rd round I reload does not burn all the powder and a get a puffy load. Everything from bullet stuck at the end of the barrel to hitting the target at 25 meters. Leaving behind a lot of unburned powder. Actually, it was a bare flame of burning gunpowder on one case I ejected from the gun. 

I have eliminated all reloading errors. I have inspected every case for correct amount of powder, and the powder is there. Then I’m left with two sources of error: 

1.    The powder is wet.

2.    The primer doesn’t ignite properly.

 I will test another powder today and different primes tomorrow. The gunpowder I’m using is Vihtavuori. I used 5,3 grains of N310. And I will test it with 7,0 grains of 3n37 today. The latter, I usually use for my high pressure loads like 9mm, .38Super and .40 rounds.

http://www.lapua.com/upload/downloads/brochures/2014/vihtavuorireloadingguideed12_2014eng.pdf

 The primers I’ve been using are Magtech, a Brazilian brand. I bought 5000 some 5 years ago and they have been in the original package until used. Do you have any experience with these?

 I upload this email to my Dillon webpage, www.feness.com/dillon, so I have it all together in one place.

 

Hi Michael Clerc

The "Casefeed Body Assembly" part no. 13080 broke. Please return a new one. Below are two pictures. They are thumbnails. Click for a bigger picture.

Problems dated July 2013.

Hi Michael Clerc

Most of the problems below are resolved due to good help from a Norwegian fellow at Dillon's. I don't know if he is still there. The problems are the following:

  1. Powder feed is bent and hardly works. See video.       
  2. The small punch is worn out. I need one replacement.
  3. The main bolt is eating up one of the arms. See video.
  4. And changing from small to large primer, one screw was lost, but send 2 just in case.
  1. I don't know what causes the problem so I have no item number.
  2. Item 4S, 21381, Rev B, Seater Assembly, Small.
  3. Item 14922, 650 Link arm.
  4. Item 14689, Primer Cup Bracket Screw

 

After reading the manual, I see that my point 3) above has a holding screw, item 13789, Mainshaft Set Screw. Tightening it should solve the problem, but I need the 650 Link Arm. It is almost off as can been seen on the video.

My postal address is:

Martin Feness
Bregnevegen 34
3142 Vestskogen
Norway

Kind regards,

Martin T Feness
+47 9018 3492

 

Problems with my 650. It's old, bought in 1992. So am I. Comments below are from 2005.

Below are my problems with my press. It's illustrated by pictures to the right. I give my comments as I see them.

The pictures are thumbnails. Just double-click them and you get a bigger picture in a separate window.

Symptoms

Culprit ?

Item no

Illustration
Shell plate turns back.
I cannot figure this one out, but it causes a lot of trouble. It doesn't return.		 Index return spring or ring indexer. The latter is worn. 13791
13677
Turned primers.
This is annoying. I don't know what causes it.		 No idea.
You got any?		  
Cases aren't fed right. A lot of reasons.
Case Insert Slide, Station 1 Locator		 97082
13930
Primer Indexing Arm
doesn't return properly.		 Indexing Arm Spring too weak. Index Arm Bowed Washer too strong or not weak enough or Rotary Primer  Disc worn? 13965
12832
13431